普遍的な価値、一般的といえる価値、個人的な価値の境界線の話。m_um_u さんのコメントより、です。
荒らしの人の言い分としてこんなのがありました
「ゴキブリ好きな人間なんているわけねぇよ。一般的にみんなゴキブリ好きなんてのの自由なんて認めてねぇんだよ」（大意）
↑の主張はあきらかに間違っているわけですが、これとは別の次元というか..
たしかに「一般的」に認められる価値と個人的な価値というものの違いはあるように思います
で、思うのですが
一般的な価値（蓋然的に正しいとされる価値）と個人的な価値の違いとはなんだと思いますか？
もしくは、
蓋然性（「ふつう」の価値など）はどのようにして作られていくと思いますか？
続くコメントでのお返事の続きになりますが、一般的な価値＝ジョーシキなんでしょうけれど、私、ジョーシキって言葉大嫌いでして。「みんなってアンタと、あと誰？」にも関連しそうですが^^;。でも、こんなことも言っているくらいですから、ジョーシキという言葉は嫌いでも、「そう思う人が多いと思います」とは言う(こともあるだろう)人でもあります。
「ジョーシキ」が多数決論理であることは自明ですが、ジョーシキという言葉の使われ方の実態は、「さっと思い浮かべて同意見の知人が二人以上思い浮かぶ」程度ではないかと思っています。大抵の人はその母集合の偏りには頭が回っていません。
で、私見としては結局、ジョーシキ≠一般的な価値、ということになりますか。「常識」＝共通感覚＝一般的な価値ですが。
「一般的な価値」は客観的に通用する多数決論理の適用であり、それはきちんと存在しますねぇ。で、「ゴキブリが嫌い」なことは「一般的な価値」でしょうけれど、「ゴキブリ好きの自由を認めない」ことは全く一般的ではありませんね:p。
個人的な価値との違いは、客観性/根拠があるかないか、とベタに結論づけておきます^^;。冒頭の彼には「一般的ってアンタと、あと誰？」と聞いてあげることができますね。まぁ自分の周りから必死にゴキブリ好きを嫌う人を探してくるかもしれませんが^^;。
そのようなわけで、蓋然性の作られ方に関しては、「ジョーシキ」と「一般的な価値」で分けて考えたほうがよいだろうな、とは思いますです。
ぼくとしては相対的ではない普遍的な価値観はあると思うんです。
たとえば、「人を殺してはいけない」とか「美しいもの」とかいう基準ですね
後者のほうはコミュニティによって異なってくるのかもしれませんが..前者のほうはかなり普遍的な価値観だと思います
で、そういったものと相対的な価値観（もしくは個人的価値観）を分けるところはなんなのか、ってこと...
さて、「普遍的な価値」ですが…、個人的には普遍的な価値は存在しないと思っています。所詮は「一般的な価値」の観測上の蓋然性レベルでしかない、と。うーむ…絶対的価値ってのは難しいですね…無いような気もするしあるような気もする…^^;。
と、まぁ、何の研究もしていない普通(:p)の人の感覚で個人的意見を書いてみましたー。
まとめると、世の中には多数の人が同じ感覚を持つと観測された「一般的な価値」と、そのような証明がなされていない「個人的な価値」しか存在しない、ですか。ほんとの所は知りませんけど^^;。
やはり、多数決ということになるか..
（そして時代とか状況に応じてジョーシキってやつが違ってくる、と）
その意味では「人を殺してはいけない」も、ある状況における価値に過ぎないってことだけど...
だからといっていまの時代に人を殺すが許されるというわけでもない、と
（絶対的価値ってとこから説得するとムリってことですね）
む...納得です
ぼくとしては上記のようなことをわきまえつつ暫定的なルールを作ること（そしてそれを守ること）も可能だと思うので、その辺りは続けていこうと思います
それにしても、またしても脳資源をお借りした形になりましたね（ありがとうございます）
この記事の文脈では、「ジョーシキ」と「常識(＝一般的価値)」を違うものとして使い分けてますです^^;。そういうわけで、
＞（そして時代とか状況に応じてジョーシキってやつが違ってくる、と）
時代やコミュニティで変わってくるのは「常識」の方と思っています。まぁ「常識」にも時代に応じた「一般常識」とコミュニティに応じた「ローカルルール＝そのコミュニティでの常識」の二種類ありますが、本文ではそれは区別してなかったです。
で、「ジョーシキ」はというと、「お前それは常識じゃなくて個人的価値でしか無いだろ」という類のことを指して書いたつもりですー^^;。分かりにくくてすみません_o_。
さらに言うと、「一般的な価値」は多数決論理で決まりますが、それは「正当」かどうかとは独立ですね。書き忘れてたけど。
んじゃ、「正当」は「普遍的な価値」なのか？ということになりますね。私は直感的にはそれもまた違うと思いますが、それは「価値」というものの定義にも二種類あって混同されているからだろうと思い至りました。「評価に基づく価値」と「そのものから観測される事実の羅列としての価値」みたいな感じでしょうか。後者は一般的には「価値」と呼ばない気がしますが、「絶対的な価値」って後者みたいなものを指しているように思います。
辞書的には絶対的価値は「真・善・美」に関することらしいですが、私的には「善・美」は絶対的ではない。「真」だけは(その中でも特定のものだけかもしれませんが)絶対的価値と呼べるものという気がします。で、「真」に基づくものが「正当」なんだ、と。
ここで言う「真」は科学的な「真」ですかね。社会とか人の話の正当性の判定が如何に難しいかが分かる…。
m_um_u さんの問いたい所はそういうところだったんだろうな…と今になって思いました_o_。
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